Where could we have a 2nd Melbourne metro track?

[Messenger]

According to The Age today, the state government is contributing $17.5m of the $40m upgrades to Cranbourne and Pakenham's training facilities (with Caulfield to cease training within 5yrs)

Maybe we should be seeking more than the additional $6m promised to us - maybe we could get them involved in the Melton land development

THE FIRST 13 POSTS IN THIS THREAD WERE MOVED FROM THE ODDS AND ENDS THREAD

[Dot]

Was thinking similar Kev, but you know how I like BIG ideas and you believe we need a continued strong presence in the South East how about this- Caulfield is also getting another track and lights for night racing when the trainers depart for Cranbourne and Packenham. How about we let the gallops remove the trot track from Cranbourne and put in an another racetrack inside the existing track so they have two new racetracks and give them our training centre as well at Cranbourne which could easily be renovated to accomodate twice the horses or more then it does now and harness moves to and redevelops Sandown as a standalone harness racing and training facility,( hopefully that's easier to get to and more popular!) with a bit left over for development which is what the MRC wants to do with Sandown anyway. Motor racing is restricted to 5 weekends there now because of residents and expecting to be evicted in time by the MRC.

Of course I'm probably dreaming but Sandown Park became Sandown Park when it was operated by the Victoria TROTTING Club in the 1890s well before it morphed into the MRC, and well with a former MRC CEO as HRV chairman and the HRA chairman on the board at Cranboune can't be a better time to try........

[Messenger]

How we would love a metro track

[arlington]

https://www.commercialrealestate.com.au/property/part-of-the-ford-portfolio-part-1727-1787-hume-highway-campbellfield-vic-3061-2014690360

[Messenger]

Campbellfield a lot more central than Melton

Thinking of the East, I just did a search for Ringwood to Campbellfield = 37min while Ringwood to Melton = 68min

[gutwagon]

Campbellfield a lot more central than Melton

Thinking of the East, I just did a search for Ringwood to Campbellfield = 37min while Ringwood to Melton = 68min
Would be great, close to the ring road, large population close by. Never going to happen, more chance of me winning the lotto two weeks in a row !

[arlington]

Would be great, close to the ring road, large population close by. Never going to happen, more chance of me winning the lotto two weeks in a row !

Has anyone got the US billion dollar lottery winner's email address?

[Dot]

Now if they’d come on board we should be able to buy back in at Moonee Valley!

[Amlin]

At least Sandown has rail to the door, loads of spare land that could be developed with a Mirvac style company, decent water supply and huge car parks which could be leased to the relevant body for train commuters.

And surplus grandstand buildings which could be converted into government offices, conference facilities etc



Was thinking similar Kev, but you know how I like BIG ideas and you believe we need a continued strong presence in the South East how about this- Caulfield is also getting another track and lights for night racing when the trainers depart for Cranbourne and Packenham. How about we let the gallops remove the trot track from Cranbourne and put in an another racetrack inside the existing track so they have two new racetracks and give them our training centre as well at Cranbourne which could easily be renovated to accomodate twice the horses or more then it does now and harness moves to and redevelops Sandown as a standalone harness racing and training facility,( hopefully that's easier to get to and more popular!) with a bit left over for development which is what the MRC wants to do with Sandown anyway. Motor racing is restricted to 5 weekends there now because of residents and expecting to be evicted in time by the MRC.

Of course I'm probably dreaming but Sandown Park became Sandown Park when it was operated by the Victoria TROTTING Club in the 1890s well before it morphed into the MRC, and well with a former MRC CEO as HRV chairman and the HRA chairman on the board at Cranboune can't be a better time to try........

[Dot]

Yeah Kyle those were the sort of things I was thinking of when I wrote that post, plus room for some open space for the public. The difficulty of course will be how to secure the site for trotting......

Currently the trainers that are to be evicted from Caulfield are questioning why Sandown can’t be retained as a training centre for them, but it seems the Melbourne Racing Club are pretty determined to sell it.

[gutwagon]

Sandown would be a nightmare for horses from the north and west of the state to get to, and as we know the east can barely put together enough horses for a meeting.

[Dot]

During the week I don’t doubt it Rick but on Saturday nights? What if all Metro meetings revert to Saturday nights as I understand is intended for this season at Melton and with Sandown as the alternative/turnabout Metro venue? As a recall it now Chairman Dale Monteith identified in his review after the last election it was essential for the future of harness racing in Victoria that there was a second Metropolitan venue in the south east.

Cranbourne is south east but I don’t think it really counts as Metropolitan. As someone else wrote recently we have to dream in our sport, and in my dream Sandown would include quite a large horse population training there.

[Messenger]

Officially Cranbourne is metro.
Being in Casey shire - No 6 on the map and the 6 is pretty much where Cranbourne is
(map is a bit fuzzy - 6 is 3rd furthest to the right)
But Portsea is officially metro too!

[Toohard]

Sorry but why would you spend money that you don't have on another track? Do you think people would turn up? We don't race on grass so it's not like we need another one to rest the existing one. People dont turn up to the gallops at Flemington that has it's own railway station. AFL has Docklands right on the edge of the city (with its own station) and most weeks its half empty (full).

People don't get off their bums and go places anymore. Why would you? You can watch on the telly/phone live and bet on your phone/PC. Why sit in endless traffic jams especially in middle of winter?

Even in the halcyon days of harness racing when people did turn up there was only one metro track. Why build another that no one turns up to?

[Messenger]

You are probably right Paul.
And I guess that could be an argument for making the metro track at Melton - if people are not going to come, we may as well put it close to where the greatest concentration of trainers are.

If on the other hand the industry believed attendance could be important and that they could arrest its decline - then Melton limits their catchment area

AFL, I think is an exemption to the trend in that their attendances have continued to marginally increase every year

Even if you only pull huge crowds on a few occasions a year eg Gallops, I think it has spinoff for the rest of the year.
Oh for harness racing to pull it off even once would be a start - to get a huge crowd = media coverage = presence in the sporting landscape

[Dot]

Don’t get too uptight Paul it’s a (mostly) hypothetical discussion for interests sake, and you’ll note earlier references to US Lottery wins. Cranbourne may technically be in the Metro area but I think it’s a really hard sell that it is a Metro track, and being seen as a Metro track by punters is important as every states Metro track generates more turn over then any other, but with Cranbourne being very obviously a provincial track at best for gallops punters how do we sell it to the punter as a Metro venue for harness?

That’s exactly why Melton was put where it was Kev because it was close to a very large trainer base, and for that reason the council supported it, but the downside has been that it is located on the opposite side of town from the wealthier areas of Melbourne that provided much of the ownership base in the Showgrounds and Moonee Valley days and caused a decline in interest in ownership accordingly.

But is Melton still located close to the largest population of trainers? Pretty sure many of the harness properties along the western highway and surrounds out to Melton and beyond have been consumed, or will be by the urban growth zone, meaning that there will no longer be a large number of trainers close already ( or soon) to Melton unless a training centre is built? But as Paul has said people don’t go places anymore and he’s right. So is retaining Melton and building a training centre there, bearing in mind the HRNSW budget for building the Menangle training centre was $10m and they also didn’t need to buy land, the right thing to do for the future of harness racing?

Or do we actually need a completely new model for the future of harness racing that doesn’t include a “Metro” track ( and training centre) at Melton or indeed a track in the Metro region at all. Do we become a regional sport only? With say 3 racing ccts based around the three principle regional towns/cities Ballarat, Bendigo and Shepparton ( Mildura remains as an “island”) and each of these tracks hosting in turn the states “Metro” meeting on a Saturday night? If we’re going to sell Cranbourne as a Metro venue to punters can we not sell each of these three tracks as a “Metro” venue for the stay at home punters in Melbourne (and elsewhere)? I’d think there’d be a chance at least that each of these tracks as the populations grow could draw a similar sized crowd to the track as Melton does and can cater for. For trainers the cost of regional property is much less then in the Metro region, and its far more likely our future trainers will come from country and regional areas rather then suburban Melbourne. And we would need to travel horses through city traffic jams. But would we draw enough owners?

I won’t be going to the HRA conference, perhaps we can do a little brainstorming here?

[Messenger]

Interesting post Dot.
I liked the ideas of Anthony McDonald (see http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?11659-IDEAS-on-how-we-can-improve-Harness-Racing/page10)

Over two years he spoke to everyday people in their homes and found the message around harness racing the same. “I love horses, I like racing but I don’t come to the track because I don’t gamble.”

“We have become so focused on advertising the gambling and wagering side of the sport, that we don’t sell the experience and the one thing that most people actually love – the horses.

“At the moment around two percent of your population attended race meetings last year. Instead of trying to saturate that market and make that two percent wager more, why not try and get the other 98 percent onboard?

“You can do that by utilizing the unique opportunity we have in harness racing. Get them to fall in love with the sport by making them part of the story. Give them the opportunity to fall in love by giving them value and affordable options, and I can guarantee they’ll come to the tracks, and they’ll bring their family and friends to the track too."

Where would such a strategy fit in?

[Messenger]

Who makes up the VicTAB pool?

Before turning off the idiot box I see Singapore gallops on Thoroughbred Central and notice the size of the win pool
Shocked, I do some research
I don't know whether R3 is going to reach the level of R2 which had $285k Win pool and $180k Place pool (who needs attendance)

How do we compete with that?

The Shep trot run around the same time held $20k Win and $9k Place

Singapore R3 now jumped and they ended up with $337k Win pool - is this all Australian money at about 10.30pm AEDT?

[Dot]

Who makes up the VicTAB pool?

Before turning off the idiot box I see Singapore gallops on Thoroughbred Central and notice the size of the win pool
Shocked, I do some research
I don't know whether R3 is going to reach the level of R2 which had $285k Win pool and $180k Place pool (who needs attendance)

How do we compete with that?

The Shep trot run around the same time held $20k Win and $9k Place

Singapore R3 now jumped and they ended up with $337k Win pool - is this all Australian money at about 10.30pm AEDT?

Are they commingled pools Kev, so Vic tab punters are betting into the Singapore pool? And it’s the combined pool showing? Can’t imagine it wouldn’t be. Wouldn’t like to imagine it isn’t commingled !

[Dot]

Interesting post Dot.
I liked the ideas of Anthony McDonald (see http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?11659-IDEAS-on-how-we-can-improve-Harness-Racing/page10)

Over two years he spoke to everyday people in their homes and found the message around harness racing the same. “I love horses, I like racing but I don’t come to the track because I don’t gamble.”

“We have become so focused on advertising the gambling and wagering side of the sport, that we don’t sell the experience and the one thing that most people actually love – the horses.

“At the moment around two percent of your population attended race meetings last year. Instead of trying to saturate that market and make that two percent wager more, why not try and get the other 98 percent onboard?

“You can do that by utilizing the unique opportunity we have in harness racing. Get them to fall in love with the sport by making them part of the story. Give them the opportunity to fall in love by giving them value and affordable options, and I can guarantee they’ll come to the tracks, and they’ll bring their family and friends to the track too."

Where would such a strategy fit in?

Anthonys message was increased ownership increased attendance and I guess the strategy would be to include incentives for those living in Melbourne to visit regional Victoria! I would like to think that coinciding with a shift out of Melbourne metro would be an increase in the quality of the vision provided for punters and virtual reality experiences for fans and prospective participants.

Moonee Valley will have 35 night gallops meetings a year after the redevelopment, think it was Saturday nights, and how many will Caulfield have and what night when they get their lights? Would we do better going head to head with them at our “metro” venue (Melton or Cranbourne) for attendees? Or would we do better with our “metro” meeting at a major regional centre on the same night as night gallops and where our prospective attendees could experience live harness racing and watch Melbourne night gallops on our big screen? Although of course the all important question is which is best for wagering returns.

[Amlin]

Between races at the dogs I overheard the Sky or radio announcer mention something to do with the bet size being essentially 5 to 1, meaning 5 of their currency equals 1 oz dollar. I may have heard wrong though.


Who makes up the VicTAB pool?

Before turning off the idiot box I see Singapore gallops on Thoroughbred Central and notice the size of the win pool
Shocked, I do some research
I don't know whether R3 is going to reach the level of R2 which had $285k Win pool and $180k Place pool (who needs attendance)

How do we compete with that?

The Shep trot run around the same time held $20k Win and $9k Place

Singapore R3 now jumped and they ended up with $337k Win pool - is this all Australian money at about 10.30pm AEDT?

[Messenger]

Confirmed - it is co-mingled (phew)

[gutwagon]

I think we have to stick with Melton and make it better. Friday night racing at Melton was a disaster for our sport as people and horses struggled with traffic and it just was not possible for many people to get there for the first few races. The previous board should have realized this after 12 months and not let it drag on for years.

We need to stick to Saturday nights , having the gallops on that night may even increase turnover with people betting on Harness between gallop races.
Melton should have been a 1400m track from the start so extend the track and provide some more outdoor under cover seating and fix the parade ring.
Bring back standing starts and race from 1 mile up to 2 miles for variety. Without a massive boost from the state government another metro track is just a dream.

They need to focus on getting new owners and breeders as well as turnover.

[Messenger]

New Harness Racing Victoria chief executive Dayle Brown has mooted the possibility that harness racing may seek to re-establish a base in metropolitan Melbourne.

Almost ten years since the final harness race was run at Moonee Valley on February 6, 2010, Brown admits a need to market the sport to a broader population may lead to HRV looking to access a venue closer to the Melbourne CBD than its current base at Melton, some 40km away

https://www.punters.com.au/news/are-the-trots-heading-back-to-the-big-smoke_186374/

[gutwagon]

I see Moonee Valley as the only viable option.
I wouldn't call Melton a "Metro Track".