cobalt

[Richard prior]

Havent posted here for awhile but the simple fact of all this Cobalt is a banned product over a certain limit and if you present a horse to race over that limit no matter who is to blame the buck stops with the trainer and he is Guilty and must pay the price.
+1

[Race For Fun]

Havent posted here for awhile but the simple fact of all this Cobalt is a banned product over a certain limit and if you present a horse to race over that limit no matter who is to blame the buck stops with the trainer and he is Guilty and must pay the price.

Yes, yes, yes end of section.

[HISGEN65]

Havent posted here for awhile but the simple fact of all this Cobalt is a banned product over a certain limit and if you present a horse to race over that limit no matter who is to blame the buck stops with the trainer and he is Guilty and must pay the price.

Have to agree with you 100% Brian...that is the bottom line & I have been wondering for a while now how this fact has been somewhat lost in all this.

[barney]

Because to many people want to excuse the wrong doers or even protect them for what reason i dont know.

[Boydy]

God forbid the penalty fitting the crime.

As per trainers accidently feeding horses contaminated feed (and getting zero penalty), all factors should be accessed when delivering a penalty. Simply if you do not know the facts with regards retention periods and dosage rates how can you accurately assess a penalty. It is simple you cannot.

[barney]

Not sure how anybody can say cobalt was accidentally feed in contaminated food maybe a supplement was contaminated but by who and was it an accident or planned, methinks planned.

[Messenger]

God forbid the penalty fitting the crime.

As per trainers accidently feeding horses contaminated feed (and getting zero penalty), all factors should be accessed when delivering a penalty. Simply if you do not know the facts with regards retention periods and dosage rates how can you accurately assess a penalty. It is simple you cannot.

Adam I really was hoping that you were going to tell me if a triple dose of an approved treatment could produce a positive.
Not that it would get you off all charges but saying someone stuffed up and 3x happened - would surely be a good defense to go with (if a triple really could cause it )

[Messenger]

What they are admitting to supposedly doing to defend Moody in his cobalt case is unbelievably damning

Headline: Cobalt Inquiry Horses Given Unknown Injections

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/cobalt-inquiry-horses-given-unknown-injections-20151221-glsuc0.html

[barney]

Kavanagh and Obrien find out there fate tomorrow Wednesday.

[Messenger]

and

The end of The Age article is reporting that Moody is incensed at the adjournment till Feb 18 because there are Sales next month - don't worry about the Sales would be my suggestion.

[Messenger]

Kavanagh (snr) and O'Brien found GUILTY

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/trainers-mark-kavanagh-danny-obrien-guilty-of-cobalt-charges-20151223-gltz24.html

[barney]

Mary jane Mifsud has been given 7 years for cobalt use in horse at Albury 2nd offence

[Fan of Jate]

What are the excuses for this penalty? Are the stewards wrong?, faulty equipment, my mate accidently fed them the wrong supplement or a host of other reasons. There are no excuses for this type of behavior by anyone connected with the racing industry. The industry must be cleaned out even if it costs jobs or livelihoods otherwise they will continue to cheat and be supported with excuses by people in forums such as these.

[Messenger]

But you would appreciate that the excusers are outnumbered by others, IMO somewhere between 20 and 100 to 1

[Boydy]

Kevin,

All I can say is in my opinion is every case should be accessed on it merits. Despite the former regimes shortcoming particularly with the disgraceful "green light" scandal at least you could read the transcripts of the case and form your own opinion. I was most definitely in the everyone that wins too many are doing something dishonest but both the facts I have researched and things I have seen have changed my opinion on the Cobalt issue. Your comments show plenty of people think "ignorance is Bliss".

[Messenger]

Oh well Adam, call me lazy or spread a bit thin but with everything that requires ones attention nowadays I am not inclined to spend much time questioning stewards (in ignorant bliss no doubt) disqualifying trainers with cobalt positives as normally I think they are fairly lenient and tending to err on the side of caution, anyway I am sure if they get it wrong there is always the appeals process

Did you think Pat's post was referring to you?

[Richard prior]

Oh well Adam, call me lazy or spread a bit thin but with everything that requires ones attention nowadays I am not inclined to spend much time questioning stewards (in ignorant bliss no doubt) disqualifying trainers with cobalt positives as normally I think they are fairly lenient and tending to err on the side of caution, anyway I am sure if they get it wrong there is always the appeals process

Did you think Pat's post was referring to you?

Lmfao

[Hermione]

Think that should read LYFAO to make sense? :) :) :)

[Messenger]

You can LMFAO as much as you want Richard.[/QUOTE]

Lately you have had only one issue/posting topic Adam - cobalt. I don't really think my 20/1 comment is your major issue and you definitely don't want to make me your issue
I have no vested interest in the cobalt issue, for that matter I do not really have a vested interest in harness racing, it is just one of my many hobbies - which includes reading and when it comes to subject matter I will read whatever I feel like. I hope you do to.
I will also post whatever I like on this forum provided it is within the rules. I am a poster first and foremost - I am a moderator by default (we are recruiting ;))
Unfortunately unlike many forums, we do not have polls on Harnesslink or else we could test whether there are 20 others to every Cobalt excuser. I have edited my posted 760 for you.
I fear our forum is no longer bringing you satisfaction - that really is the only reason a person should belong to a forum, so I hope that changes for you

[DRUIDRACING]

Having not being on here for a while there seems to be trainers still using cobalt.......it confuses me why they continue to use when they are being warned day after day about all the products that are illegal ..............i assume they already knew that. But they continue to flaunt the system and they should be rubbed out. The general enthusiast (punter) who dont understand the racing style of many horses are guided by form and betting only. To myself who watches many races and to some degree understand the way various stables conduct there racing I find currently that the use of chemical help has diminished with the racing evening out and the better horse winning. The draw and gate speed now being other factors that govern races even for the bettor horses. I am sure some statistics would make for good reading when assessing whether any stable who were winning many races and now are struggling to keep there records of recent years. However it would be difficult as the racing life of the majority of horses is under 100 starts, approx 2% have move than a 100 starts out of sample of 4500. that equates to 4 to 5 years of racing. I hope the chemists leave the industry and then we will see the real trainers excell.

[Messenger]

https://www.racing.com/news/2016-01-08/osullivan-we-never-administered-cobalt

This might prove an interesting one, as it dates back to just a couple of months ago you would have to shake your head and agree with Terry O'Sullivan's comment
“You’d have to be absolutely stupid to use it.”

teecee: let Boydy come back so that he can see how open-minded I can be

[barney]

https://www.racing.com/news/2016-01-08/osullivan-we-never-administered-cobalt

This might prove an interesting one, as it dates back to just a couple of months ago you would have to shake your head and agree with Terry O'Sullivan's comment
“You’d have to be absolutely stupid to use it.”

teecee: let Boydy come back so that he can see how open-minded I can be

The second sample was miles over 1300 from memory, something is up but have been told a lot of trainers use b12 injections for horses and this can cause a increase in cobalt. My original opinion in ths case he was a bushie and wouldn't be using the supps of the big time trainers but who knows have to compete i suppose.

[Jimbob]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/trainers-mark-kavanagh-danny-obrien-guilty-of-cobalt-charges-20151223-gltz24.html


Mark and Danny to appeal ban?

[Messenger]

The above SMH mostly concentrates on O'Briens views
The following Age link details the verdicts

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/danny-obrien-mark-kavanagh-tom-brennan-banned-over-cobalt-20160119-gm9lbm.html

"In relation to each of the horses trained by him, Danny O'Brien is disqualified for a period of three years, an aggregate of 12 years. Four months of the penalties imposed in relation to Bondeiger, De Little Engine and Bullpit are to be served cumulatively upon the penalty imposed in relation to Caravan Rolls On [three years] and upon each other. A total of four years disqualification."

Kavanagh received three years on one charge, that of presenting his horse Magicool.

[Messenger]

The lead NEWS story on Melbourne ABC news

[Adaptor]

Thank goodness this seems to have come to a conclusion.
Bottom line...race day medication, with the added issue of Cobalt in the horses urine.
Out !

[Messenger]

It is going to play out for most of the year I imagine - with Moody yet to be found guilty and so his appeal will be even later than today's two

[barney]

4 harness trainers in Qld to fce stewards next month with one gallop trainer .This has been a long time coming.Source the gold coast bulletin.

[Messenger]

It is all over Harnesslink news too Brian

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Cobalt-scandals-are-set-to-continue-next-month

[teecee]

http://www.hrnz.co.nz/images/Advisory_Note_-_Blood_Booster_-_Feb_2016.pdf

[Messenger]

This could prove an unfortunate loophole TC

[Pena]

I really do not understand this comment Kevin. Surely you would want someone you used a product in good faith to be protected from someone else's mistake?

[Messenger]

What I meant Jack, is that everyone with a cobalt positive is likely to claim they have used it

[Big Mac]

Being buisness people, anyone who used this product would have some sort of receipt or invoice showing purchase of said product.

[Messenger]

True Dean, I am worrying about nothing

[Messenger]

Just catching up with the supplements from the weekend paper and found this comprehensive feature story about Terry Bailey and the cobalt issue

http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/the-lone-ranger-terry-baileys-battle-to-clean-up-racing-20160201-gmiqmw.html

[Big Mac]

Moody. Not Guilty of cheating

[Toohard]

Moody. Not Guilty of cheating

He trains horse(s) for David Moodie?? Chairman of Racing Victoria?

[Messenger]

I have not read it all but knew his case was going to be quite different from O'Brien and Kavanagh in that there was no vet implicated especially none that were shared with a son who had already pleaded guilty

[gutwagon]

If he doesn't get at least 6 months the whole thing is a joke!

[Big Mac]

I have not read it all but knew his case was going to be quite different from O'Brien and Kavanagh in that there was no vet implicated especially none that were shared with a son who had already pleaded guilty

Then where does the hope family fit.
No shonky vet there. Just not as high profile. But they seem to have copped it.

[Messenger]

I am definitely not saying I agree with the verdict Dean, simply that it was going to be harder to prove because of the line the defence was taking

[Messenger]

If he doesn't get at least 6 months the whole thing is a joke!

https://www.punters.com.au/news/Peter-Moody-suspended-over-cobalt_143955/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

Just the 6 mths really - he will take winter off and be back in Spring (amazing how it works for him! )

[Messenger]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/peter-moody-penalty-baffles-many--in-and-out-of-racing-20160321-gnn4dh.html

Patrick Bartley is certainly baffled by the Moody decision.

The crux of the article:

"This science provided the stewards and their lawyers with a simple premise: one cannot exceed the raceday threshold through normal practices.

This also meant that the only explanation for such administration was the belief or intent that performance was affected.

Judge Lewis accepted the science of cobalt as proposed by the stewards and all individuals (the Hopes, O'Brien, Kavanagh and Brennan) were found guilty of administering a prohibitive substance, cobalt, to affect performance in a race.

Last Wednesday, Judge Bowman said the board was sceptical of Moody's explanation that cobalt, in the form of the feed additive Avalia, had caused Lidari's elevated reading of 410mcg/L.

But the board was not satisfied that Moody administered or caused to be administered cobalt for the purpose of affecting performance. As a result, Moody was cleared of the serious doping charge.

The board did not draw any inferences as to why Moody administered cobalt.

The Bowman board seemed to accept that sloppy stable feeding practices or some stable error had caused Lidari's reading, but surely sloppy practices do not explain one isolated positive in a 100-horse stable. So if it wasn't the feed, how did the cobalt get into Lidari?"


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/peter-moody-penalty-baffles-many--in-and-out-of-racing-20160321-gnn4dh.html#ixzz43aDvwutz

[Pena]

Does Patrick Bartley actually like horse racing?? I know he was barred from the Caulfield media room and to be honest I find it difficult to take anything he writes seriously as I cannot help but think of my father saying the word, Nark when ever I read his stories.
In recent time Chris Waller was given a fine for Lasiyx in the Metropolitan and only received a fine. Mistakes happen and surely if Peter Moody has a stable of 100 horses and only one has an elevated reading surely there is a reasonable chance of a mistake happening. Its fantastic to think that a trainer has ultimate responsibility but if racing wants big stables then the trainer cannot do everything and must depend on and trust others. Mistakes happen, just like people have car accidents.
Every case should be accessed on its merits and people like Kavanagh and O'Brien in the gallops and Rhys Nicholson in harness deserve everything they get and more in my opinion. However I am yet to be convinced that the whole cobalt issue is as simply as some of the people in authority think.

[Messenger]

You sound like you want to shoot the messenger Jack. A nark is an 'informer' and that is exactly want I want from my journalists. I want to know what actually goes on because I am first and foremost a horse lover (maybe Patrick is too)
We should not ignore the fact that Lidari had a reading of 400 when our generous limit is 200, while Hong Kong's is 100 and the average horse tests at 5

[teecee]

http://www.riu.org.nz/announcements/statement-requestfordisqualification

[Messenger]

It would seem that it could/did happen.
The only things I find confusing about the article is that you would think that if it was a bad batch - that many horses would have been affected. Maybe it is a product that is rarely used by racing trainers and yet it is 'a commonly used feed additive'
The fact that is a commonly used feed additive makes it surprising that it has been discontinued.

[Tangles]

http://www.riu.org.nz/announcements/statement-requestfordisqualification




Yes Kevin, Facts are Facts frightening isn't it when perceptions are challenged. But a man's livelihood and reputation was called into dispute. I am glad scientific evidence cleared the trainer in question. No need for you to be confused.

[Messenger]

http://www.riu.org.nz/announcements/statement-requestfordisqualification




Yes Kevin, Facts are Facts frightening isn't it when perceptions are challenged. But a man's livelihood and reputation was called into dispute. I am glad scientific evidence cleared the trainer in question. No need for you to be confused.

I will never assume anything is 100% fact just because it has been reported or gone through a judicial system mj
Of course this man's reputation was on the line whether it was his doing, bad luck etc as he is in a position of responsibility and the positive was a fact
I'm afraid I am a meticulous, questioning type and am still confused/surprised as you did not answer my questions about why the batch did not result in other positives and why an apparently respected manufacturer would stop producing a commonly used product - maybe they cannot guarantee quality

[Danno]

http://www.riu.org.nz/announcements/statement-requestfordisqualification



In my humble opinion, there are insufficient details in the article for anyone to form a viable opinion about anything other than this gent was exonerated.


Full stop..thats it!

[Pena]

Keenly awaiting Patrick Bartley's coverage of this story. Somehow I do not think it will be reported by PB.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/cobalt-labs-not-accredited-court-hears

[Messenger]

Thanks for the link Jack but it is absolutely ridiculous to make Patrick Bartley the issue

[Pena]

Kevin, obviously Patrick Bartley's is not the issue. However his attitude and the attitude of others has continually bemused me in the Cobalt issue.
To me there has always been something about introduction of the outlawing of Cobalt usage that has not made sense. The rushed trials, the lack of proof of performance enhancement, the harsh penalties has not sat well with me. Everyone wants the cheats out of the game, but ultimately the stewards role is to be like a referee. Impartial and enforce the rules. Unfortunately I think we currently have a situation where the referee is changing the rules without due consideration. If this story is correct and don't forget the courts will deal with this matters far differently than the stewards or the industry appeal tribunal it will make a complete mockery of the sport and its administrators.

[gutwagon]

The courts will rule only on points of law and proper procedures etc, they wont take into account animal welfare or the administrators rights to make whatever rules they like. And the fact that all participants have agreed to abide by those rules and judgements . If it can be proven that the labs were not accredited to test for cobalt levels and there are no remaining samples to re test then the charges will have to be dropped and compensation paid. Heads would have to roll at the VRC etc. Of course the sport will be the big looser.

[Messenger]

Kevin, obviously Patrick Bartley's is not the issue. However his attitude and the attitude of others has continually bemused me in the Cobalt issue.
To me there has always been something about introduction of the outlawing of Cobalt usage that has not made sense. The rushed trials, the lack of proof of performance enhancement, the harsh penalties has not sat well with me. Everyone wants the cheats out of the game, but ultimately the stewards role is to be like a referee. Impartial and enforce the rules. Unfortunately I think we currently have a situation where the referee is changing the rules without due consideration. If this story is correct and don't forget the courts will deal with this matters far differently than the stewards or the industry appeal tribunal it will make a complete mockery of the sport and its administrators.

The mockery will come if it is viewed as 'cheats prosper' rather than 'stewards stuff up'
As far as Cobalt goes, I do not need to know much more than the facts that the average horse tests <5 and that correct feeding and administering of approved products cannot result in >35

One thing for sure is that the issue has been nearly as big a circus as the Essendon FC case

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/racing-stewards-choose-not-to-appeal-moody-ban-20160413-go5cvb.html

[Pena]

That's a pretty simplistic point of view Kevin.
The facts are, just because stewards are stewards, does not make them right and any less accountable than the "Cheats" to following the rules. I am sure I do not need to give you any accounts of stewards not following the rules. If you are going to take away someone's livelihood and tarnish their reputation surely everything should be done to ensure the rules are followed to the letter.
If a horse registered a reading 100 times higher than normal for Vitamin C they would not get 3 years and I cannot see that Cobalt is anymore performance than Vitamin C or any other approved supplement.

[aussiebreno]

That's a pretty simplistic point of view Kevin.
The facts are, just because stewards are stewards, does not make them right and any less accountable than the "Cheats" to following the rules. I am sure I do not need to give you any accounts of stewards not following the rules. If you are going to take away someone's livelihood and tarnish their reputation surely everything should be done to ensure the rules are followed to the letter.
If a horse registered a reading 100 times higher than normal for Vitamin C they would not get 3 years and I cannot see that Cobalt is anymore performance than Vitamin C or any other approved supplement.

So trainers just giving it to them for no reason. Quite a number of horses could be named as improving around the time of cobalt and sure enough a few of them belonged to trainers who went positive.

[Toohard]

That's a pretty simplistic point of view Kevin.
The facts are, just because stewards are stewards, does not make them right and any less accountable than the "Cheats" to following the rules. I am sure I do not need to give you any accounts of stewards not following the rules. If you are going to take away someone's livelihood and tarnish their reputation surely everything should be done to ensure the rules are followed to the letter.
If a horse registered a reading 100 times higher than normal for Vitamin C they would not get 3 years and I cannot see that Cobalt is anymore performance than Vitamin C or any other approved supplement.

Gday Jack. You can't compare Vitamin C to Cobalt but I think I see your point. You will concede that to exceed the 200 Cobalt level something 'artificial' is being done? When it was detected a long time ago people were told to stop using it. It was added to the list of things they were testing for and everyone was told. But some kept using (maybe unknowingly) and got caught. Performance enhancing or not... why would they keep using it?

The dodgy 'vet(s)' are the ones that should be wearing the brunt of this more than any I reckon. But appears they are allowed to 'move on' whilst others cop the crap.

I'll get simplistic too.... You paying up for horses Jack? You happy to do that knowing others are flouting the rules?

[Messenger]

I like to keep things simple and to the point Jack. Would you be happy to have something in your body at 100 times the level that the average human has?
I like Brenno and Paul's replies

[teecee]

It would seem that it could/did happen.
The only things I find confusing about the article is that you would think that if it was a bad batch - that many horses would have been affected. Maybe it is a product that is rarely used by racing trainers and yet it is 'a commonly used feed additive'
The fact that is a commonly used feed additive makes it surprising that it has been discontinued.

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-s-walkinshaw-decision-dated-26-april-2016-chair-prof-g-hall

[Messenger]

Another interesting one TC
For some reason it makes me think of how Blackmores shares have skyrocketed - the chinese market trusts Blackmores' vitamins. What I am getting at is that trusted manufacturers may become more and more important in our industry too

[Pena]

I hear McDowell and Day have had their penalties reduced and will be getting their licences back.


Anyone heard anything similar??

[Messenger]

Racing Australia announced that the new level for Cobalt is to be 100mg/l from September 1, replacing the current permissible level of 200mg/l

[Pena]

The silence is deafening on the Mcdowell and Day case.


I have been told their penalties have been reduced to around 2 years but I cannot confirm this despite being able to find plenty on the original penalties.


Does anyone know??

[Pena]

I see the Appeal transcipts for Day and McDowell are now available.
All I can say is intriguing reading.


http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/uploads/files/appeal%20decisions/day%20&%20mcdowell%20severity%20appeal%20decision%2006071 6.pdf


Neil day only 1 year 2 months and 26 days and McDowell 2 years 2 months and 6 days.
Both finish their penalty on the same day.
Obviously the parties made a deal and I can smell a very big rat.


Why have both HRNSW and the Tribunal weaken their stance so much on this Cobalt matter?
What does HRNSW have to hide?
As for John Dumesney saying this is what the tribunal is for, please give me a break.
This was a deal struck by HRNSW and only ratified by the Tribunal.
So why have HRNSW weaken their stance on the Cobalt issue?

[Messenger]

Maybe they haven't weakened their stance on cobalt but have had to compromise on this case.
Racing Victoria have not weakened their stance - halving the acceptable level, and yet due to circumstances have advised Peter Moody he may wish to appeal his suspension

[Pena]

Like it or not HRNSW have weakened their stance. This case has certainly shown that. I think more importantly what information have HRNSW effectively suppressed by not running this appeal. I bet the participants that got significantly harsher penalties would like to know.

[Beltane]

Neil day will be back in the driver's seat this Wednesday at Bathurst:

http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=BH200716

[Pena]

Interesting to see a horse like Miss Artistic Tara still performing after 2 disqualifications for Cobalt.
Almost 2 years after being disqualified twice for Cobalt use winning an M0 in 1:52.



http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/trotstv/replays/26002

[Messenger]

Darrel Graham in trouble for cobalt (Again? I think we are still waiting for the consequences of a previous one more than a year ago)

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30542

a day after getting a pat on the back

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30539

Not a good look

[Messenger]

Vet had suspicions on $1000 'vitamins' for racehorses

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/vet-had-suspicions-on-1000-vitamins-for-racehorses-20160803-gqkhjm.html

The last line reads really badly IMO

I'm trying to tell the truth."

[Danno]

And some people would have us believe the whole Cobalt saga is all about nothing other than the ineptitude of the various racing authorities' abilities to send swab samples to adequately accredited labs!! I wonder if, when re-tested elsewhere, the samples will have "inexplicably altered" in "unique circumstances"....I'm pretty sure that may have happened somewhere before!!??!!

[Danno]

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Graham-was-disqualified-for-a-period-of-15-months

[Messenger]

Darrel Graham is currently in Australia's Top 20 Trainers for 2015-16 but after today's decision he will miss all next season and be giving them a headstart in 2017-18 and he is lucky to be getting off with 15mths

[Pena]

Interesting to see that the cobalt deck of cards is about to collapse. Maybe this puts into perspective the change in attitude to Day and McDowell. Participants are meant to adhere to the rules, this includes the stewards who should be even more accountable. I am betting that the racing administrators do not tow the line with HRNSW.

https://www.racing.com/news/2016-09-06/lab-not-endorsed-at-time-of-cobalt-test

[Messenger]

Interesting to see that the cobalt deck of cards is about to collapse. Maybe this puts into perspective the change in attitude to Day and McDowell. Participants are meant to adhere to the rules, this includes the stewards who should be even more accountable. I am betting that the racing administrators do not tow the line with HRNSW.

https://www.racing.com/news/2016-09-06/lab-not-endorsed-at-time-of-cobalt-test

Of course you realize that this has nothing to do with cobalt the substance Jack. What does the part I highlighted mean?

[trish]

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/38112/cobalt-administration-can-put-horses-humans-at-risk?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=health-news&utm_campaign=09-06-2016
Article from The Horse: Cobalt Administration Can Put Horses, Humans at Risk by Erica Larson

[Toohard]

http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nunciobeatenbyhorsewithcobaltlevelof400.html

Interesting read. Not performance enhancing?

Quote halfway through it...

Swedish horsemen had an immediate reaction to the scandal, among them Stefan Melander, the trainer and owner of Nuncio, who picks up an additional two wins—and approximately $90,000 in purses—due to the positive tests.

"I and many others have been surprised by some transformations. Mediocre horses that became stars of Souloy," said Melander when asked for his reaction to the news.


The horse Lionel in the article was the one that beat Bold Eagle in France when he was going for the 'Grand Slam'. Bold Eagle cruised passed him and he looked beaten but miraculously came back and won. Will try dig out the replay. Maybe some retrospective testing in France coming up as well?

[Toohard]

http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nunciobeatenbyhorsewithcobaltlevelof400.html

Interesting read. Not performance enhancing?

Quote halfway through it...

Swedish horsemen had an immediate reaction to the scandal, among them Stefan Melander, the trainer and owner of Nuncio, who picks up an additional two wins—and approximately $90,000 in purses—due to the positive tests.

"I and many others have been surprised by some transformations. Mediocre horses that became stars of Souloy," said Melander when asked for his reaction to the news.


The horse Lionel in the article was the one that beat Bold Eagle in France when he was going for the 'Grand Slam'. Bold Eagle cruised passed him and he looked beaten but miraculously came back and won. Will try dig out the replay. Maybe some retrospective testing in France coming up as well?


Here's replay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5N66g4rDvM

Lionel sits in death whole way and Bold Eagle sits on his back. Nothing happens rest of race so if interested just watch from about the 4 min 25 sec mark onward... "Un mircale!!"

[Messenger]

Not just Lionel but the whole 4 are big race winners:

Un Mec d'Heripre won an elimination for the Elitlopp over Nuncio and then finished third in the final, which was won by Nuncio. Your Highness, a daughter of Chocolatier, won the Oslo Grand Prix over Nuncio.

In addition, Timone EK, who won a feature race at Bjerjke the same day as the Oslo Grand Prix, had a cobalt level of 271. He too was trained by Souloy.

http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nunciobeatenbyhorsewithcobaltlevelof400.html

[Messenger]

The positive European tests, which were reportedly confirmed by a French laboratory, are as follows:

Un Mec d'Heripre--prior to Elitlopp elimination—400; prior to Elitlopp final—371; prior to Oslo Grand Prix—521

Your Highness--prior to Oslo Grand Prix—395

Lionel--prior to Oslo Grand Prix-468

http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nunciobeatenbyhorsewithcobaltlevelof400.html

Remember that the normal horse tests at <10

[Toohard]

Not just Lionel but the whole 4 are big race winners:

Un Mec d'Heripre won an elimination for the Elitlopp over Nuncio and then finished third in the final, which was won by Nuncio. Your Highness, a daughter of Chocolatier, won the Oslo Grand Prix over Nuncio.

In addition, Timone EK, who won a feature race at Bjerjke the same day as the Oslo Grand Prix, had a cobalt level of 271. He too was trained by Souloy.

http://www.harnessracing.com/news/nunciobeatenbyhorsewithcobaltlevelof400.html

Yes Kev you're right but the win of Lionel in France....mmmmm. I see Your Highness has been scratched from the big race in France tonight.

The legal team in at VCAT at the moment must be rubbing their hands in delight. Experts at these matters now they might have a European vacation upcoming. After all 'red herring' very popular dish in northern Europe....

[Toohard]

Some more reading about it here but you need to use the translate button (Chrome) unless speak Swedish

http://www.expressen.se/sport/trav/fabrice-souloy-blir-avstangd-i-sverige/

The story broke on this forum/blog

http://ingvarssonopersson.se/

Reading through some of the comments... you'd be pulling your hair out moderating that one Kev!!

[Messenger]

Tricky translating Paul but the point made that cobalt was not banned until last year in Sweden, makes you wonder about past performances

[Toohard]

Funny translating some of it. The bloke had a punch on after a race after a race a few years back. When you translate it says "The pair exchanged sex words with each other and then it began the biff".

Souloy was interviewed off camera yesterday by a bloke who was obviously born into equine sports. His name? Tony Equestrian. Seriously that's his name!

http://www.expressen.se/sport/trav/fabrice-souloy-det-ar-ett-stort-misstag/

It has stormed the trotting world in recent days. On Thursday came reports that several of Fabrice Souloys
horses tested positive for doping. Fabrice Souloy has since been turned off in Sweden. During TV4 V75 broadcast
on Saturday the reporter Tony Equestrian was in place down there in France and had talked with Fabrice Souloy
who did not want to stand in front of the camera. Tony Equestrian told, however, what the Frenchman said.

- There are vitamins I gave the horses on the advice of my vet. It is a big mistake.

- I have been advised by the vet to give the horses the vitamin supplement every day so that they would
manage journeys between Sweden and Norway better.

He does not say anything straight out says Tony Equestrian. The general attitude in France is that it was
about time.

Peter Kallings, veterinary and doping expert, was also included in the broadcast. He does not believe that it
is possible that the horses high levels of cobalt may have been accidental. It is clearly above
the permitted limit. I see no natural explanation for the high values, he said in the broadcast.


If you go back a few years you'll find an interesting story about a horse called Commander Crowe and an IV drip that disappeared real quick when authorities wanted to examine it.

[trish]

http://www.austrotforum.com/weblog/archives/commandercrowe_elitloppet.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwiRnuD9-4bPAhVBppQKHQxKDdkQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austrotforum.com%2Fweblog%2Fa rchives%2F2012%2F06%2Fcommander_crowe_winning_the_ bi.html&psig=AFQjCNHaQY8Y4jh1VjkIXPIXyCcF9-iHDA&ust=1473671411310691)Commander Crowe

[Njcstables]

Funny translating some of it. The bloke had a punch on after a race after a race a few years back. When you translate it says "The pair exchanged sex words with each other and then it began the biff".

I've been learning French again recently Paul and I think Souloy might have said "go forth and multiply" but I could be wrong!

[Hermione]

That reminds me of another mis-translation. To "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" came instead "The vodka is good but the meat is off" :) :) :) !

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30946

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30946

Mark Billinger was 4th leading driver in SA last season and Rap Artist was runner up in horse of the year with 13 wins, 2 seconds and 1 third from 16 starts!

http://www.harness.org.au/sa-premierships.cfm?season_name=1516

[Toohard]

Meanwhile in Europe... Souloys owners have been taking horses off him at a rapid rate. His horses are banned from racing in northern Europe and now Italy. The ones left have been transferred to his brother in law who hasn't trained one since May 2013. And those ones? They were transferred to him by another trainer banned at the time for horse doping.

[arlington]

May well be a lost in translation thing but did I read some high profile owners whose integrity would be beyond reproach found Souloys practices so abhorrent they reacted by removing their horses? Didn't this guy have form? Some owners are so gallant...hmmm

[arlington]

Mark Billinger was 4th leading driver in SA last season and Rap Artist was runner up in horse of the year with 13 wins, 2 seconds and 1 third from 16 starts!

http://www.harness.org.au/sa-premierships.cfm?season_name=1516


Was that the win dedicated to his father, Val, who had only recently passed away?

[Toohard]

May well be a lost in translation thing but did I read some high profile owners whose integrity would be beyond reproach found Souloys practices so abhorrent they reacted by removing their horses? Didn't this guy have form? Some owners are so gallant...hmmm

That's the way I read it too. Appears some face saving going on as they copping heaps for giving him horses in first place. Owners probably not happy about having to pay back prize money too. And if they stay with him their racing opportunities limited

Form? Was all just 'speculation' I think although not shortage of trainers coming out now saying something was going on.

Wasn't charged in 2012 Sweden because his 'drip' disappeared. Wanted to give to horse because was dehydrated. Vet wanted to see his drip. Disappeared before got chance to examine it.

Was there this year for Elitlop and stabling area not like over here. There's not one big shed with all horses in like over here. Lots of little buildings all over the place some occupied by just one trainers team. Didn't see a lot of security around buildings when I was there and horses inside buildings away from view. Says no positives to Cobalt in pre race tests which maybe done when horses arrive on course. Pre heat his horse test 400. Pre final 379. Heats and final same day so lots other factors involved but Nuncio appeared to have every chance get past his horse in heat and couldn't. In final sat outside it and won. It's Cobalt reading 1.2.

[Messenger]

From up my way in the gallops world

http://www.stawelltimes.com.au/story/4197558/osullivans-take-firm-stance/?cs=1662

They have not been charged over their positive from nearly a year ago and say they are perplexed to have 2 more positives - one over 600mg/l

[trish]

http://musingsonequinemedicine.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/what-is-cobalt.html?m=1

[trish]

That's a funny photo Kev.

[Greg Hando]

http://musingsonequinemedicine.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/what-is-cobalt.html?m=1

A very good read Trish thank you for sharing

[lasse]

AHRR amendment from 1st Nov. Cobalt level 100

[Messenger]

That is a good thing IMO, some who are flirting with cobalt may have to be a bit more careful.

[Messenger]

As posted by Lasse

(k) Cobalt at a concentration at or below 100 micrograms per litre in urine or 25 micrograms per litre in plasma

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Amendments-to-rules---Cobalt

In the article recently linked by Trish, I noticed that mg/l urine would seem to be far more reliable

In a study where different laboratories across the globe tested the same samples, the variation between testing laboratories was as high as 82% for the testing in serum and 23% in urine. Because of the greater agreement between lab testing methods using urine, the international community has settled on a urine threshold of 100 mcg/mL raceday threshold for uniformity.

http://musingsonequinemedicine.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/what-is-cobalt.html?m=1

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31144




This one is from 23rd December 2015.

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31147

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31148

[Messenger]

That is 3 from SA

Just been given a tip that another story of Steward corruption is about to break in another state

[trish]

I hope your mail is wrong Kev but NOTHING would surprise me with this game anymore.

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31170

[Messenger]

15mths for Qld trainer

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Darren-Weeks-

[trish]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC2f_GUsAATkn6.jpg:large
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[DRUIDRACING]

any good for people i need a lift.................arsenic seems to be the new cobalt

[trish]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/new-cobalt-study-raises-fresh-welfare-concerns-for-horses-and-jockeys-20161113-gsoa39.html

[teecee]

It would seem that the supply chain may have been severed or buried underground...

http://www.taylormadeequine.com/product/cobalt-plus/...

the link has been closed down !!!!!

[Messenger]

I saw the words Cobalt and fast track in the Marcus Today Newsletter and thought he had started a Harness section

"Cobalt Blue is looking to raise $10m as a pure play listed Cobalt company with the backing of Geoff Hill. Cobalt Blue wants to fast-track development of the Thackaringa Cobalt Project in NSW. Cobalt is an integral part of the next generation of lithium-ion batteries."

;)

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Mark-Billinger-disqualified-for-3-years

They don't mess around in SA

[barney]

He will probably appeal and keep apealng and still be training in 12 months like C Demmler

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31897

"ON Thursday 15 December 2016 Harness Racing NSW suspended the licences of trainer/driver, Mr Shannon Lindsay, pursuant to Australian Harness Racing Rule 183."

"HRNSW Stewards considered all available evidence at that time and determined that Rule 183 should be invoked based on ........."

"Mr Lindsay has not been charged with any breach of the Rules and has been advised of his rights of appeal against the imposition of Rule 183."

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Europe/French-trainers-banned-and-fined-

France's 'Mr Group 1' and 4 other trainers suspended over Cobalt positives

[trish]

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Dalgety-defends-his-name


This shocked me.
I think I read somewhere that their had NOT been any positives to cobalt in harness in NZ...(on here).

[Fan of Jate]

Aren't the trainers accountable for checking the feed so that positive swabs to cobalt are not present? Implying that feed supplements or a change in feed causing the positive swab seems to be a common defence. It will all come out in the investigation which appears to be in the early stages.

[Messenger]

“I am hoping the RIU investigations will show that but I won’t be getting into a big legal battle with them"

They must all be amazing people in NZ for Cran to think he won't/shouldn't have to

[arlington]

“I am hoping the RIU investigations will show that but I won’t be getting into a big legal battle with them"

They must all be amazing people in NZ for Cran to think he won't/shouldn't have to

When you're on a first name basis Kev; RIU boss Mike Godber..."Cran’s other horses..."

[trish]

https://www.racing.com/news/2017-01-19/hefty-punishment-for-abu-dhabi-cobalt-trainer

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Shannon-Lindsay-gets-4-years

NSW gives Lindsay 4 years

[Messenger]

To all the 'dabblers' - be warned: Even though a year may have passed, they may still come knocking

*http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32809

A please explain for Alison Chisolm re Jimmy The Editor's win on 16/4/16

[Messenger]

Rebecca Brown, not charged (yet) but stood down

*http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32918

[Messenger]

Rebecca Brown, not charged (yet) but stood down

*http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32918

[teecee]

Rebecca Brown, not charged (yet) but stood down

*http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32918

Got the shakes Kev?? ...Hit the send button twice...!!!!!

[Messenger]

I am still having ridiculous trouble posting. I am cutting and pasting from Memo but I still have to strike it lucky to be able to send - sometimes I have to try/refresh several times

[arlington]

Got the shakes Kev?? ...Hit the send button twice...!!!!!

Isn't that down trousers? ;)
Might be irrelevant to Kev...Halls Gap to the Tassie Wilderness...isn't that the nudist camp trail?

On a lighter note, Kev, you mentioned in another thread the stand down rule 183 might be irrelevant these days. A State based thing??

[aussiebreno]

Rebecca Brown, not charged (yet) but stood down

*http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32918
Had had a prior pos swab, as well as having her then disqualified boyfriend helping her work the horses. Should be out for life now if found guilty.

[arlington]

Had had a prior pos swab, as well as having her then disqualified boyfriend helping her work the horses. Should be out for life now if found guilty.


Thanks for the history Breno, priors...stood down....three strikes.


A bit off topic, I don't really know all the whys and why nots some thoroughbred states resisted dual, jockey/trainer licences and maybe P V'landys having previously been in the harness racing industry could come into it in NSW but, what impression does a trainer/driver give off if suspended as a trainer? I realise we've always had the opportunity to be dual licensed but is there more public/punter scrutiny, perception when they drive? I guess it's the same when a trainer/driver hands the training over to their partner...I suppose there's the notion of "arm's length" there.

[Messenger]

Isn't that down trousers? ;)
Might be irrelevant to Kev...Halls Gap to the Tassie Wilderness...isn't that the nudist camp trail?

On a lighter note, Kev, you mentioned in another thread the stand down rule 183 might be irrelevant these days. A State based thing??
It will be interesting - everyone in Vic that appeals such a suspension has it reversed
And to you Mr Hayes ....

[teecee]

oh my golly goshh...how bad is that...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An absolute shocker!!!!!


Is that what happens to jockeys when they get a whiff of cobalt from the horse's breath?? Blown away.

[arlington]

It will be interesting - everyone in Vic that appeals such a suspension has it reversed
And to you Mr Hayes ....

I wonder how this is going - 2016 Paul Bittar Review Recommendation:-

2. The restructuring of the appeals and disciplinary system to remove the appeal to the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) of decisions by RADB and to establish a single cross­code Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board (RADB).

Kevvv I heard the jockey was singing when Irish eyes are smiling.... :eek:

[arlington]

VCAT

Flemington trainers Danny O'Brien and Mark Kavanagh have on Friday morning successfully appealed their lengthy disqualifications over cobalt positives.

The pair are free to resume their training careers after Justice Greg Garde dismissed the charges against the trainers at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

In upholding the appeal, VCAT found:

- That it was satisfied that Dr Tom Brennan, the veterinarian of both of the trainers, administered or directed the administration to each horse of a substance in a bottle labelled ‘vitamin complex’ in pre‐race drips. The substance contained a high concentration of cobalt chloride.

- That it was not satisfied to the requisite standard that either Kavanagh or O’Brien caused Dr Brennan to administer the substance in the vitamin complex bottle, or that they were aware that it was being administered to their horses.

- That is was not satisfied to the requisite standard that either trainer was informed by Dr Brennan or suspected that he intended to administer an unproven and untested substance to their horses.

- That is was not satisfied that Kavanagh or O’Brien failed to make sufficient enquiries of Dr Brennan as to the substances that were to be administered to their respective horses, or were negligent in relying on veterinarians to administer pre‐race drips to their horses.

- That the test results were inadmissible evidence against the trainers, given that the cobalt testing procedures between April 2014 and August 2015 "substantially departed" from the requirements set out in AR 178D of the Rules of Racing.

[DRUIDRACING]

woosh goes the broom...............under the carpet............just dont get caught

[Messenger]

Surely 'they' were satisfied that these trainers were paying Dr Brennan HUGE bucks for vitamins. Racing is a joke - they need 24hr video surveillance of all horses

[arlington]

A quick flick through the decision...I'll take RV into RV.
Anyone want a bit of the litigation funding action for the KOB?

[Pena]

Fantastic to see the Cobalt myth and all its advocates slowly starting to fall.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/barrister-wins-cobalt-defamation-case


I really cannot stand the biased opinions of Patrick Bartley.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/the-secret-society-behind-the-cobalt-case


I cannot help but wonder, that considering the outcome of Kavanagh/O'Brien case and that the large majority of Cobalt convictions were prior to an approved test method that sometime in the near future HRNSW and HRSA are likely to face a significant compensation law suit some time in the future. I think that HRNSW or their representatives have forgotten that in enforcing the rules, everyone should expect that there should be fairness in creating, implementing and enforcing the rules. By not using an approved testing method surely they have failed to fulfill this obligation. It does irritate me that some participants have done knowingly tried to cheat and now they have an avenue to possibly get compensation but by not completing the testing in an approved manner, surely HRNSWs actions are no better than the cheats.


Also what ever happened to the Argon Gas conspiracy. This was the next big thing after Cobalt but it seems to have died a silent death?

[aussiebreno]

Fantastic to see the Cobalt myth and all its advocates slowly starting to fall.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/barrister-wins-cobalt-defamation-case


I really cannot stand the biased opinions of Patrick Bartley.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/the-secret-society-behind-the-cobalt-case


I cannot help but wonder, that considering the outcome of Kavanagh/O'Brien case and that the large majority of Cobalt convictions were prior to an approved test method that sometime in the near future HRNSW and HRSA are likely to face a significant compensation law suit some time in the future. I think that HRNSW or their representatives have forgotten that in enforcing the rules, everyone should expect that there should be fairness in creating, implementing and enforcing the rules. By not using an approved testing method surely they have failed to fulfill this obligation. It does irritate me that some participants have done knowingly tried to cheat and now they have an avenue to possibly get compensation but by not completing the testing in an approved manner, surely HRNSWs actions are no better than the cheats.


Also what ever happened to the Argon Gas conspiracy. This was the next big thing after Cobalt but it seems to have died a silent death?
No test for Xenon or Argon gas so what can you do?

[Messenger]

Fantastic to see the Cobalt myth and all its advocates slowly starting to fall.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/barrister-wins-cobalt-defamation-case


I really cannot stand the biased opinions of Patrick Bartley.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/the-secret-society-behind-the-cobalt-case


I cannot help but wonder, that considering the outcome of Kavanagh/O'Brien case and that the large majority of Cobalt convictions were prior to an approved test method that sometime in the near future HRNSW and HRSA are likely to face a significant compensation law suit some time in the future. I think that HRNSW or their representatives have forgotten that in enforcing the rules, everyone should expect that there should be fairness in creating, implementing and enforcing the rules. By not using an approved testing method surely they have failed to fulfill this obligation. It does irritate me that some participants have done knowingly tried to cheat and now they have an avenue to possibly get compensation but by not completing the testing in an approved manner, surely HRNSWs actions are no better than the cheats.


Also what ever happened to the Argon Gas conspiracy. This was the next big thing after Cobalt but it seems to have died a silent death?

Global warming would have to be a myth too Jack

[gutwagon]

This VCAT decision should not affect other cobalt cases. If you read the whole verdict the judge was satisfied that labs didn't need to be accredited to test for cobalt. The rules of racing say they must be tested by 'Official" labs and these labs were official. RV lost because they didn't follow their own rule (AR 178D) . They were supposed to inform the trainers as soon as they had 2 confirmed positive tests. But they didn't, they let the trainers keep racing other horses and got more positive tests. Because they breached their own procedures the judge declared all the tests as inadmissible. It had nothing to do with the labs not being accredited to test for cobalt.
If the harness racing stewards have followed correct procedures then the convictions will stand. 692

[arlington]

Fantastic to see the Cobalt myth and all its advocates slowly starting to fall.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/barrister-wins-cobalt-defamation-case


I really cannot stand the biased opinions of Patrick Bartley.


https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/the-secret-society-behind-the-cobalt-case


I cannot help but wonder, that considering the outcome of Kavanagh/O'Brien case and that the large majority of Cobalt convictions were prior to an approved test method that sometime in the near future HRNSW and HRSA are likely to face a significant compensation law suit some time in the future. I think that HRNSW or their representatives have forgotten that in enforcing the rules, everyone should expect that there should be fairness in creating, implementing and enforcing the rules. By not using an approved testing method surely they have failed to fulfill this obligation. It does irritate me that some participants have done knowingly tried to cheat and now they have an avenue to possibly get compensation but by not completing the testing in an approved manner, surely HRNSWs actions are no better than the cheats.


Also what ever happened to the Argon Gas conspiracy. This was the next big thing after Cobalt but it seems to have died a silent death?


Argon, Xenon...keep listening to and reading the journos other than Patrick Bartley, am sure they'll have a sympathetic view "just getting an edge" and I'll get my stradivarius out again...only one string left after listening to "poor" O'B Moods and Kav

[Messenger]

Argon, Xenon...keep listening to and reading the journos other than Patrick Bartley, am sure they'll have a sympathetic view "just getting an edge" and I'll get my stradivarius out again...only one string left after listening to "poor" O'B Moods and Kav
+1

[arlington]

A quick flick through the decision...I'll take RV into RV.
Anyone want a bit of the litigation funding action for the KOB?

first leg in.

[teecee]

first leg in.

????????????????????????????????

[arlington]

????????????????????????????????

https://rsn.net.au/racing-victoria-seeks-leave-appeal-vcat-cobalt-decision/

Racing Victoria (RV) has today submitted an application seeking leave to appeal to the Court of Appeal of the Supreme Court of Victoria against the decision of the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) on 17 March 2017, which upheld an appeal by licensed trainers Danny O’Brien and Mark Kavanagh.

[teecee]

thank you

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=33366

[teecee]

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-c-dalgety-reserved-decision-as-to-penalty-dated-16-may-2017-chair-prof-g-hall

PS...
The Cobalt threshold of 200ug applied in this case has since been reduced to 100ug in NZ

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Cran-Dalgety-livid-with-excessive-fine-for-cobalt-charges

Cran gets away with a fine but still angry

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/HRV-RAD-Board-Hearing-Alison-Chisholm

Alison Chisholm 12mths

[DRUIDRACING]

how many warnings do these people want........dont they read anything.....apparently not

[DRUIDRACING]

might need detox centres for the horses soon.................? do they have the same reaction as people when they are not using anymore.

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/HRV-RAD-Board-Hearing-Alison-Chisholm

Alison Chisholm 12mths

HRV stewards are seeking a VCAT review of this penalty

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=33783

[trish]

http://harnessnews.com.au/2017/06/massive-cobalt-sentence-handed-down/

[Fan of Jate]

The Norwegians mean business, unlike the gelded Australian authorities. I dont know the full details but I bet the feeble excuses offered by trainers (and their supporters) who have been caught in Australia would not last 5 seconds with the Norwegians. It would be also be interesting to see how much support that trainer would have got from the general racing public over there. My opinion is that if you support a light suspension or fine for cheating with chemicals then you are as bad as the person who cheated.

[allanjg]

ditto...

[trish]

4 years http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=34026

[Fan of Jate]

I know we cant have it both ways but;

The threshold exceedance was not included in that report and that the threshold has been reduced to 100mpl-Hughes gets 4 years. Must have been massively over the threshold.

Ms Chisholm receives 12 months and the threshold at her time of being charged with cheating was double what it is now at 200 mpl

Broken Hill yeah rite. Are they getting the low hanging fruit in a place where the fastest horse would not beat me and they have 10 meetings a year?

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=34072

Ross Graham charged

[Messenger]

3yr Disqualification from Training for Mark Billinger

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Billinger

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=34072

Ross Graham charged

He got 15 months

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/A-15-month-suspension-

[Messenger]

Paul Grech the latest - he also got 15 months

http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/Grech%20Paul%20RAD%20Board%20decision.pdf

[trish]

https://www.justhorseracing.com.au/news/australian-racing/trainers-warned-of-cobalt-levels-in-feed/403411

[Messenger]

https://www.justhorseracing.com.au/news/australian-racing/trainers-warned-of-cobalt-levels-in-feed/403411

What would be so bad about 'grass, hay and carrots' LOL

[Fan of Jate]

Trainers are obligated to check what goes into a horses mouth...dont lets kid ourselves about what goes on. Instead of whinging about having to be scientists, they should lift their level of professionalism. If feed supplied was that bad across the board , wouldnt every trainer in the land be busted for high cobalt levels?
Trainers/industry people also need to come up with solutions to this issue and let the controlling body know about their ideas. The controlling bodies are not blameless either. Their procedures and rules should be watertight re accreditation for testing etc, there are no excuses for that, it is their job. I know trainers who have horses who are continually swabbed and tested and come up clean every time. These hangers on and long time lurkers on facebook and twitter seem intent on stirring the pot as well instead of coming up with something constructive.

What can be done about the suppliers of the feed? They should also be held accountable if information is misleading.

[gutwagon]

I'm sick of people defending the use of cobalt on social media. I don't believe one innocent trainer has been caught . I believe that some trainers think if the threshold is 100 then they want their horses racing with 90 in their system. So then all it takes is some feed or a supplement with a little extra in it and they're over the limit and they scream that they are innocent ! The normal level for a horse in training on a cobalt free diet is <10. They allow an extra 90 just to be sure . So if your not treating your horse with cobalt you are safe. I can't believe with all the information and warnings out there that any trainer would use a feed mix that has added cobalt.
Then there are the idiots that use 10 different products that contain cobalt but think it's ok to use that product at the recommended dose ! Yes it is but just one product not multiple ones. When all the facts come out they are usually injecting large amounts of it into their horse, it's never an accident. The same people are claiming that cobalt is not performance enhancing ! So why are they using it ?

[Njcstables]

I'm sick of people defending the use of cobalt on social media. I don't believe one innocent trainer has been caught . I believe that some trainers think if the threshold is 100 then they want their horses racing with 90 in their system. So then all it takes is some feed or a supplement with a little extra in it and they're over the limit and they scream that they are innocent ! The normal level for a horse in training on a cobalt free diet is <10. They allow an extra 90 just to be sure . So if your not treating your horse with cobalt you are safe. I can't believe with all the information and warnings out there that any trainer would use a feed mix that has added cobalt.
Then there are the idiots that use 10 different products that contain cobalt but think it's ok to use that product at the recommended dose ! Yes it is but just one product not multiple ones. When all the facts come out they are usually injecting large amounts of it into their horse, it's never an accident. The same people are claiming that cobalt is not performance enhancing ! So why are they using it ?

+1

[arlington]

http://www.thoroughbrednews.com.au/australia/default.aspx?id=101522

[Messenger]

http://www.thoroughbrednews.com.au/australia/default.aspx?id=101522

Punters.com see it as a loss to Racing Victoria

https://www.punters.com.au/news/cobalt-pair-cleared-of-administration-_164052/

[Dot]

http://www.skyracing.com.au/index.php?component=news&task=rnewsdetails&Itemid=108&id=23&rid=57919

[Messenger]

http://www.skyracing.com.au/index.php?component=news&task=rnewsdetails&Itemid=108&id=23&rid=57919

Unlike VCAT (see below) it would seem that QCAT are still considering whether the right decision has been made

QUOTE:
I read in the Harness Racer that

"Matters put to VCAT will be limited to consideration of penalty, and not merit (i.e. VCAT will not re-consider if the RADB made the right decison in terms of guilty/not guilty)"

That is a positive
END QUOTE (from Positives Only thread)

[Messenger]

I see in the paper today that the gallops are no quicker at resolving matters than us (Think Cobram crew)
The O'Sullivans of Stawell are still having their Cobalt charges from 2015-16 heard

No debate about whether the level should be 100 or 200 as we are talking 1200 with 2 of their horses

[Messenger]

Graham's penalty reduced from 15mths to 12mths - no real explanation why

https://nationaltrotguide.com.au/trainers-minor-victory-against-cobalt-disqualification/?fbclid=IwAR13vL1R91Wz-mhSHNFkmEsS5GP-Mii9aG2w8l60ZYrVmjHKQDgrNp9NN-Q

[Messenger]

John McCarthy get 12mths

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=42177

Vic gallops seem to going nowhere on their cases while still claiming they are strongly against cobalt
Peter Moody has said they cannot have a change of opinion or else they would face a heap of litigation from those already suspended (like him)

[gutwagon]

I still can't understand why so many people want to use Cobalt but claim it doesn't improve performance ? It's been ruled prohibited over a certain level, It's irrelevant if it improves performance or not. Just follow the rules. Sounds like it may mask some other substance to me.

[Messenger]

Ross Graham gets 12mths for a 2019 offence

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=44824

We will have to await the written decision to see why it wasn't more considering that he received 15mths in 2017 for a 2016 offence

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/A-15-month-suspension-

He was once a revered trainer :(

[thepacingman]

Graham's penalty reduced from 15mths to 12mths - no real explanation why

https://nationaltrotguide.com.au/trainers-minor-victory-against-cobalt-disqualification/?fbclid=IwAR13vL1R91Wz-mhSHNFkmEsS5GP-Mii9aG2w8l60ZYrVmjHKQDgrNp9NN-Q

Six years later found not guilty. Wheels of justice turned very slow.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/harness-trainer-darrel-graham-found-not-guilty-of-cobalt-after-sixyear-battle-against-qric-20211113

[Messenger]

Six years later found not guilty. Wheels of justice turned very slow.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/harness-trainer-darrel-graham-found-not-guilty-of-cobalt-after-sixyear-battle-against-qric-20211113

Yes, this one about Darrel Graham (not Ross) is big news

[Showgrounds]

I believe the Graham finding highlights a disgraceful case of mismanagement. The stewards should have dropped the case immediately they were aware the chain of custody for the swab samples had been compromised. Any Council would withdraw a parking ticket for a failure in procedures, Queensland Racing Integrity Commission were aware the samples had been tested by an uncertified lab. Instead of dropping the case samples, or perhaps what was left of them, were then sent to another lab. No points of proof, no case but they spent huge amounts on legal fees and pushed on. The administrative tribunal's lack of knowledge of racing and adherence to procedures was shown up.

Darrell Graham could have just copped it on the chin but didn't. Good on him. Will QRIC be liable for Graham's legal cost? They should be liable for cleaning up a mess of their own making. I predict long standing cobalt charges might now be dealt with swiftly and some may be withdrawn. It's coming up 3 years since John McCarthy received 12 months but rhe wait in hearing his appeal is nothing compared to what Darrell Graham has been through.

[Messenger]

PP is suggesting that Nickel is the new Cobalt
Read the short explanation in the article below and you will see why

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297650882_Nickel_in_equine_sports_drug_testing_-_Pilot_study_results_on_urinary_nickel_concentrati ons

But you will also notice that it has been on the radar since 2016 (article date) so you would wonder whether it is being tested for