Would anyone know how many mare's Jereme's Jet served in 2010
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Would anyone know how many mare's Jereme's Jet served in 2010
For this season I believe he was restricted to 100 mares because of problems arising from his shipment back to Canada. My understanding is that the 100 mare quota was attained and access for additional mares was then restricted. We bred 3 mares to him and found the semen quality to be just fine, so I'm not sure whether the restricted use was necessary.
Hi newschool
Thanks and i found out Jereme served 117 and he wasn't restricted due to his semen it was due to him getting a bit crook due to an infected tooth.
I would say he will get a lot more mares this coming season in Canada as a result of the Harisburg Sale. They sold for unreal money. The Canadians have got just so much money at the moment and they were thwe big buyers. I am still not sure if he will make it at stud as he is a Western Hanover but he certainly has been given a huge chance.
Thomas
Not to be rude but it seems that you don't like the Western Hanover line, could you please explain and give me some insight as in Aus we don't see or hear everything about the stallions over there and also what stallion line do you like.
By my count, there have been at least 29 sons and 12 grandsons of Western Hanover that have been active breeding stallions. Two of his sons, Western Ideal and The Panderosa, have in total at least 12 sons that are also active stallions. In my opinion, Jeremes Jet is probably an upgrade on Western Ideal
Hi Newschool
So you would rank Jereme's Jet an upgrade on Western Ideal, Western Ideal has done a great job at stud why would you consider Jereme an upgrade?
Mango
Yes I am not a fan of Western Hanover as they are well known to be moody bad tempered horses. That whole line is the same.
You have to like Western Ideal though and he might be the one that carries a good line on through Rocknroll Hanover, maybe, but the jury is still out yet on him as well. As for other sons of Western Hanover like I said earlier they all leave good lookers but overall are not appealing horses for the trainers. I really believe history will tell you long term that the Western Hanover line will not do as well as many people think. They have been dissapointing to date except for Western Ideal.
Hi Thomas
Thats good to hear as my Mach3 mare had a Western Ideal filly, so which line do you prefer example Artsplace/Art Major. Would like to know your thoughts and why.
Certainly in Australia and New Zealand sons of western hanover have yet to achieve as expected at stud. I will be surprised if JJ changes this pattern. I do however, think that sons of Western Ideal could have the genetic capacity to produce in this part of the world. Dawn ofa new day left a couple of real nice horses from limited opportunities and he was only just a racehorse himself. I will be watching very closely to see what the progeny of American Ideal throw up in this forthcoming 2YO season down under.
Rocknroll via Western Ideal may be all he needs. I recall watching Dancer drive Silent Majority, a quick little guy who was very handy on the track but never really set himself apart from the rest in any way--with the exception of producing Abercrombie. When he did that, he rose above all others in the Adios line and made his mark forever.
Wishing Stone, the quick and handy little trotting colt out of Conway Hall, who is distinguishing himself of late, may be a candidate for the same sort of success when he retires from racing.
Of course Western Ideal has proven himself and Jeremes Jet is still an unproven stallion. My projection that Jeremes Jet will likely evolve into a better stallion than Western Ideal is based on the following:
1)They both have very strong dams born 10 years apart and raced almost the same number of times, but I give the nod to Ohyouprettything. I don't have the year-by-year data for Leah Almahurst, but I suspect Ohyouprettything had better 2-year old results and her 3-year old time was almost 2 seconds faster.
2)My analysis indicates that Western Hanover's pedigree matches up better with Ohyouprettything than with Leah Almahurst in 3 ways:
- a stronger Meadow Skipper presence,
- a beneficial Good Time match, and
- a double Volomite match further back in her pedigree
3)Western Ideal had his best year at age 5 with earnings that year of $1,220,000 and a time of 1:48m; Jeremes Jet had his best year at age 2 with earnings that year of $1,176,542 and a time of 1:50.4s, then lowered his time to 1:48.1m at 3 and to 1:47m in a time trial at age 4. (Apparently, JJ's earnings at age 3 would have been higher had he not been sick most of that year.)
If appearance counts for anything, the Jeremes Jet colts and fillies certainly look the part. It won't be long until we find out whether the first crop can live up to the lofty expectations.
Hi Newschool
Which line do you like Artsplace/Western Hanover or any other line, which has done the best job in the u.s over the last 10yrs and which one do you think will leave a bigger mark on the industry?
I have seen a couple of JJ foals, and there is a lot to like about then, will be very interesting to see how the go on the track and what type of money they bring at the sales.
For what it is worth and from what I can gist from the situation and other forums and what I have heard is that when it comes to Western Hanover you either get a good one or nothing,whether that be a race horse or stallion don't hang me on that as with breeding I hope that what we southern hemisphere people can learn from this forum
Jeremes Jets sold well in the U.S, i've just recieved an e-mail from a gentlemen over there and he said it was a big suprise they sold so well. He said the talk was he was a great 2yr old but very disapointing as a 3 and 4yr old. So it will be interesting to see how they go and sell over here, the ones i have seen have been outstanding types so maybe that was the big selling point.
Hi Newschool
I was just reading over your post again and yes you can take all those things into calculation but i would also look at the family close up, i think by far Western Ideal has the stronger family overall and if you were to take Jeremes Jet and Ohyouprettything out there is nothing of any importance in the first 4 dams. Just an interesting note for some people Western Ideals half sister is Best Of Memories who is the dam of Mr Feelgood who will be racing next wk in the Miracle Mile.
A great deal of Canadian money was spent at Harrisburg, particularly from Ontario, where Jereme's Jet stands. As a result, Ontario based stallions did better than actual performance would dictate they should. On the other hand, with all the upheaval in New Jersey, stallions like Rocknroll Hanover and Muscles Yankee had lower averages and top end sales than one might expect. Geography played a major role in this year's results. Studs like Credit Winner and Donato Hanover were privileged over some others, not only because of performance, in the case of CW, and expectations, with DH, but because of where they reside.
Joe
Thanks for your insight and a different way of looking at things, are certain states over there struggling and why are they is it due to some states having slots/racino's to support tracks or are there other reasons that should be taken into account. I see the Meadowlands is in trouble from an Aussie's point of view i look at the Meadowlands as the Mecca of the sport.
I agree with your assessment of the depth of quality in Western Ideal's pedigree. I guess that's a choice each of us need to make: the certainty of the proven production from Western Ideal vs. the upside potential offered by Jeremes Jet.
I have one colt from each of these stallions and they are both very nice, however at present I am more excited by the Jeremes Jet yearling now in this early stage of his training.
Hi Newschool
When they say Jeremes earnings would of been far greater at 3 if he had not been sick, what was his sickness or was that used as an excuse to cover him for breeding due to the lack of money he won that year. I do hope he goes great at stud and i had him on my radar but decided to play it safe this year and went to a proven sire in Art Major instead. I wish you all the best with your 2 yearlings and keep us up dated to how there comming along.
Much the same as the last decade, the Western Hanover line should continue to excel producing racehorses and the Artsplace line producing broodmares. It will be interesting to see if RNR Hanover females also become strong broodmares and if there will be horsepower from the Artsplace line to follow Art Major in producing stong racehorses.
I got that information from a well-connected horseman who had nothing to gain or lose by making the comment. He is kind of my mentor as I am very new at this, so I believe he was helping by giving me info to help in my decision making. He wasn't specific, but from his comments I believe it was a virus or similar problem and not a physical problem. Of interest, the buyer of the top seller for $120k on the (I believe) 3rd day at Harrisburg was the regular driver for Jeremes Jet during his racing career.
The people at Tara Hills stud which handles quite a few stallions including Jeremes Jet and Mach Three didn't see the lack of 3-year old racing success a problem. In 2008 they bred more of their mares to him than any of their other sires - and they were very handsomely rewarded for that commitment.
Hi Newschool
I've watched his dvd a couple of times and he was an easy going horse and probably the first horse i've seen on a dvd not to wear a pole, i went back through the Black Book and then to the farms who had J-J yearlings and watched the downloads of the yearlings running around they all looked very strong with good size but the thing i noticed the most was how wide they were in front. It will be interesting to see how they sell at the sales over here in Feb i will keep you posted on how they go.
I don't know this Thomas Johnson. But I am rather shocked by what he says about Western Hanover and his line. Does he not realize that WH is THE ALL TIME LEADING MONEY PRODUCING SIRE!! He has sired the winners of more money than any stallion in the history of any breed. Furthermore, he didn't start out on top. He started at an extremely modest stud fee of $4,000. In his first few books, there were very few if any, quality mares. Actually in retrospect, the only mare of any quality in his first book was Rich N Elegant, before she was "Rich N Elegant". At the time she was a maiden mare who finished her racing career racing in modest claiming events. I wonder how many great horses Mr Johnson has bred and owned.
Hi Joe
I was just wondering where Artsplace and Western Hanover stood there first seasons at stud, as i do understand a stud farm with great mare's can make a stallion. And did they stand at the same farm through out there stud time.
Artsplace stood at Southwind Farms where he was managed by Brittany Stallion Management. Western Hanover stood at and was managed by Hanover Shoe Farms.
The first time I saw the Jeremes Jets was 2 weanling pens at Tara Hills stud, and the first observation was how uniformly he had "stamped" his offspring, and this view held when I saw them again as yearlings. My second observation was that the fillies looked better than the colts, a view that was shared by others I spoke with. By the time the sales rolled around this fall, the fillies looked very good, but the colts had passed them and looked outstanding. As I said in in a previous posting: "if appearance counts for anything, the Jeremes Jet colts and fillies look the part".
The feedback I have had on my Jeremes Jet yearling now in training has been: he is a machine, he is easy on himself, he is a big stong colt that is light on his feet,etc......I haven't talked with anyone else with one in training, so I would be curious if others are having the same kind of experience with their yearlings in training.
Hi Joe
You say Artsplace was privileged with better mare's than Western Hanover, Hanover Shoe farms had Western Hanover didn't they support him with there broodmare band or has the broodmare band only picked up over the last 15yrs. Because when going through the mare's they currently own there is some quality there or were the good mare's going to another Hanover Shoe farm stallion at that time.
At the time, most people, probably including the folks at Hanover and certainly the folks at Brittany who owned most of Western would not in their wildest dreams have envisioned the great sire that he was destined to become. Artsplace was considered the super horse. Western Hanover was considered a steady warrior at best. I recall one of the so called experts of the business disdainfully referring to him as "Little Ralph" in mockingly comparing him to Ralph Hanover who became an abject failure in the breeding shed. He stood for a fee of $4,000. At best, his first three or four books consisted of "mom and pop" mares with a dearth of superstars. Artsplace, on the other hand was blessed with a collection of many of the great mares of the era.
Hi Jammsb
Thanks i would not of guessed that i was of the thought that they both got great mares, so in hindsight Western Hanover has done a super job to get where he has.
Obviously I'm biased ... but our Jeremes Jet yearling colt is one of the best-looking horses we've bred. He has great depth, an attractive head and is a beautiful, smooth mover. That doesn't mean he'll be able to run but I reckon it's a pretty good starting point. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't make some kind of racehorse.
Mango, there was a good article in Hoof Beats a month or two back on Artsplace and Western Hanover and their impact on standardbred breeding.
I was lucky enough to see Artsplace race - and he really was the horse of a generation. Amazingly tough, great speed and great gait - something he has passed on to many of his progeny.
Western Hanover had great top-end speed and was a great horse in his own right ... but, in my opinion, there have been few better pacers than Artsplace. I think people forget just how good he was. Haven't said that, I believe any criticism of Western Hanover is totally unfounded. Maybe some of his progeny have been a touch too 'fragile' and 'hot' ... but it seems Western Ideal, who I also was lucky enough to see race, has added that bit of stoutness and positive attitude, quite possibly through his dam's sire, Abercrombie. And iit looks like those traits have been passed on to Rocknroll Hanover and some other of his sons.
It's going to be an interesting few years to see how these new kids on the block shape up.
Hey Ben
Mare went good last night, and which Melbourne sale did you enter your colt in. Just wondering why Western Ideal did not race as a 3yr old.
Hi Mango,
yes, happy to see Sapphire Lil back on track. Our colt is in the Premium Sale in Melbourne.
Not too sure about Western Ideal ... I saw him in his last race at the Red Mile as a four-year-old ... went about 1:48. Big, powerful type of horse.
Hi Ben
I've got one in the premium sale as well so i'll see you there. If anyone out there knows the reason why Western Ideal never raced as a 3yr old i'd love to know.
Just read the Artsplace v's Western Hanover in october's issue of Hoof Beats and found that the reason Western Ideal didn't race as a 3yr old is due to severing his tendon at the Red Mile.
Jeremes jet was really only good at 2. He won the breeders crown on 3 legs.....his 3 yr old year excuse after excuse. His 4 yr old yr nothing...
Jeremys Jet is still being advertised, at this time of the season is it the stallions that are perhaps lacking mares that
are still being advertised? just a thought.
Who would be breeding after Xmas, old mares, people who do not care when the foal is born,
breeding to sell no way.