https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news-and-even...2-lazarus-sold
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Bloody shame in my humble opinion, pretty sure he was the sort of horse to help rejuvenate the profile of harness racing in Anzac world, now he is just a commercial asset.
Agree with you Dan a great loss to the FFA ranks
A massive blow to the local industry, The game certainly needs a superstar and imho opinion, Lazarus was all that but I’m sure we will see him back here in the future as a shuttle stallion
The biggest issue facing Lazarus, if her were to remain and stand in NZ, is the saturation of Bettors Delight blood. Or worse, Bettors Delight over Christian Cullen or In The Pocket mares. The horse population just isn't big enough for him whereas he can introduce new blood into the North American breed through Christian Cullen and his female family.
It would seem NZ breeders will be encouraged to breed to Vincent in order to introduce some fresh blood into all those Bettors Delight females.
That aside, I will really miss Laz, he was the most courageous race horse we've seen in a long, long time. No doubt Mark Purdon will spend a few nights staring at the ceiling instead of sleeping. To have had the likes of Lazarus and Vincent winning everything and then, a few months later, they're both gone magnifies the the ups and downs of harness racing.
Very well stated, Trevor. He presents the best opportunity for Southern Hemisphere sires there has ever been in North America.
His other “problem” as I see it, is performing well enough over one mile races in the US. His brilliance has been mostly over the longer journeys. He was soundly beaten in both MM’s he appeared in and his best and most convincing wins have been over 2400m plus. The yanks will go flat tack for the whole mile and he’ll have to pace around 1:47 to be a chance of beating the locals, which may also include a couple of ex-NZ or Aussie top liners.
I have to agree with Grinder, he will need to win some very good races and break some track or world records for the Yanks to be interested in breeding to him. Unless one of the major studs in the US has purchased him I can't see the US breeders being interested in him.
Agree wholeheartedly about his mile form, and he won't be the first pacer from the southern hemisphere who were top notch here over a distance, but failed in the US over the mile. I sincerely hope he blows them away up there and gets all the stud opportunities he has earned and deserves, but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever his dominance is displayed over 1 1/2 to 2 miles. I really hope he does not come up short over there, but he has here over the sprint trips.
Gee, I thought Lazarus was a great horse - I must be wrong!
There is a gulf of difference in racing in two Miracle Miles and their lead-ups and going around Menangle week after week over a mile. If he were a run-of-the-mill free for all horse, he would probably have bettered his 1:49.0 record many times over. I reckon 1:49.0 from only 4 Aus starts over the mile was a pretty good endorsement for a stallion. He went 54.9 winning over the trip at Cambridge (jogging) at his only other start over the trip.
If "speed" is everything, you could mount an argument for most Meadowlands-based claimers. Put "Laz" outside them; they'd collapse! Don't go off on a tangent by dreaming up a knock on him, he was (and I say that only because he is spelling) the best pacer in the world.
Sucks for the sport in Australasia.
Has lacked the zip and the type of fitness required at the mile however he goes from being trained for NZ Cups and IDs to specifically for mile races so he may find that speed and type of fitness. Hope he does.
We all live in hope of getting a horse that lacks the zip and fitness required at the mile like Lazarus so obviously does. Come to think of it, I've had dozens that lack he zip and fitness required for ANY distance.
Can't recall any of them reminding me of Lazarus, though.
His zip and fitness at the mile is 9.5/10. His fitness for 2200m plus racing is 10/10. Thats a big difference at grand circuit level. He is on par with the great milers, but at 2200m + he is in the conversation for best ever.
Our Waikiki Beach ran straight past him 2 yrs ago in the Miracle Mile and Laz made no impression in this years Mile. That just doesnt happen to him in 2400m races.
1:52.9 at 2yo
1:49 in a well beaten MM effort (when others suggest he has not the zip).
Whilst his race record may be considered superior at longer distances these were what he was trained for. It should be remembered Both MM efforts were at the end of long campaigns.
Many / most of these performances were mile rated at mid to low 1:50's. There is a thread on this forum listing "fast mile rates." These rates Lazarus does on the training track in many examples.
I for one have no doubt he can produce the zip ( as it is referred to prior ) to run the required time sought by his new owners in putting him back into work before his stud duties.
Ref Post #14 above a huge NO from me.
I agree with Teecee, Lazarus will be trained for Mile racing when he arrives in the USA and that is totally different to the stamina type training that he has been put through for the last couple of years, I learnt long ago to not knock a champion and that’s exactly what Lazarus is, The new US owners would have a grand plan for him in mind and that will include running fast miles and a stud career for sure, I have no doubt whatsoever that he could run fast miles if he is trained that way and I can’t wait to see how this transpires, It’s extremely exciting to see some of our better horses go up against the Americans and now our best is going to give it a crack, I wish Laz and the new owners lots of luck
It has nothing to do with any posters (keyboard warriors? You would seem to be the one in warrior mode). Of course I have no detailed info on the deal but I would say that it could never be a surprise to anybody to hear about a bad horse deal - come on Trevor this is the racing industry! The value of a deal is pretty much a matter of doing the sums and the numbers may make this deal a no brainer - based purely on the Southern hemisphere fall back option with the Northern hemi dream a bonus if it comes off. If it has to be a lot more than a bonus then we are talking about serious risk v reward stuff. Lazarus is a champion and it is hard to imagine him not smashing miles when trained exclusively for them but he also has to stay fit. The deal may be good enough for him to only need to win a few races and an American stud career seen as a pure bonus. Maybe the new owners have a big band of mares of their own but they might need to for surely you would have to concede that most Americans are pretty parochial when it comes to all things sporting
Agree with that also Kev, I think Trevor took your post the wrong way, The Americans as a whole will scrutinise Laz I have no doubt about that but the new owners come from the Ohio area and they will concentrate on that area with their own band of mares and probably see what happens from there.
At risk of stirring some into defensive mode, it should also be said that after all the expense and trouble, there is the possibility that Lazarus could turn out to be a dud as a sire. Many famous and fabulous harness racing stallions have not left their mark as sires.
My wish is that Laz wins against the best pacers in the US in sub or around 1:46 and goes on to be a sought after and successful sire in both hemispheres. That said, I am under no illusion (or delusion) about how so much has to go right for him, including acclimatising to a new environment, avoiding injury and illness, and, of course dealing with (and hopefully dodging) bad luck.
I don't think anyone who has joined this conversation on this forum wants him to fail; quite the opposite. His further success will put harness racing on this side of the globe in the spotlight for all the right reasons.
In addition, they have to improve off one of the best trainers in the world.
Showgrounds speaks for himself, with tongue planted firmly in his cheek. Not ranting, just reading the valued opinions of people who all agree Lazarus is a champion. Except, not over a mile. And the Yanks ARE parochial about there sport. Insular about most things from what I've observed over my lifetime. Unlike us Aussies, who love our champions.
Perhaps not as much as we like to pick flaws in our champions, though. Any knocks on Lazarus? He failed to win a Miracle Mile. Perhaps that could be both his tries were at the end of two highly successful, if arduous, campaigns that began mid-spring. The MM is virtually the end of the big-money Grand Circuit races; given what the horse achieved both seasons before that race he was entitled to feel a little jaded.
Lazarus' sale should be celebrated as a huge landmark in Australasian harness racing. A huge landmark.
As previously logged on this forum I am a HUGE Lazarus fan, that said, his dominance has NOT been at the mile in open age class, his dominance has been over a journey where his massive motor and tenacity see him head and shoulders above the rest. You can all speculate about training regimes etc, but the bloody horse is not a miler, look at Paul's ( Toohard) horse Anything For Love put him against Lazarus over the mile, he is not a long way off.....put the two horses together over 2400 metres...Lazarus would humiliate him.
I really want to see Lazarus kick some serious arse in the states because I think our breed has been dismissed for too long, but based on what I have seen from him over the mile, I think he will struggle to display his true ability, as he has here over the short distance in OPEN AGE CLASS, what he did as a 2 or 3yo in NZ or Aus will not help him where he is going.
I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I just can't see him showing his best over the mile.
cheers,
Danno
A wise old man once told me.....seek the facts, and deal only in facts.
cheers,
Dan
Exactly. How does Jilliby Kung Fu and Field Marshall go against Laz at 2400m. Trevor didnt want to listen to that in the Miracle Mile thread either so after the race turned his attention to complaining about the race ! He scoffed at Ricks post in that thread but look what happened
Can we please get back to Lazarus and leave your views about Trev somewhere else thanks
I truely hope Lazarus excels in the U.S. but like Danno I have my reservations, his dominance has not been established in mile racing, and like Danno and others it will be sad not to see him continue that dominance downunder. There was a comment on the All Stars website that racing has begun to take a toll on him and an abbreviated 4 start campaign may be in his best interests.
Still with such a short window to display his talents in the states I think he does have the task ahead of him. Like Kev to gain widespread acceptance amongst breeders/trainers/yearling buyers in the states I believe he will not just have to match their achievements on the clock but better them.
As for doing their homework and the deal being commercially sound for his purchasers they are Americans involved in the TB industry and as far as I know have few if any Stb mares of their own. Like many wealthy Americans and the Thoroughbred industry this deal to me seems to be very much venture capitalism, similar to at TB yearling sales where extraordinary sums are payed for well bred colts in the hope they win a stallion making race and can be syndicated at tenfold or more the purchase price, if they don't the owners take their loss and move on to the next prospect.
All Stars website makes it clear that the new owners Taylor Made intend to further syndicate Lazarus, and no doubt are hoping to turn a quick profit on the deal, and no doubt prepared to suffer a much slower return or loss if the plan doesn't come off.
It didn't for Auckland Reactor some years ago, But for now we should all just yell as loudly as we can "Go Lazarus"
Good to have you back Dot :D
Sure can...from an American perspective:
From Horseman and World Fair:
Lazarus Coming To America
http://www.harnessracing.com/images/bin/9353.jpg
When they claim Laz to be the richest down under standardbred of all time they can't have heard of a horse named BLACK'S A FAKE...!!!!!
At worst Im Themightyquinn ahead on earnings as well still, perhaps they meant to say richest entire, but then let's not let doing your homework get ahead of starting the marketing.
Also not 100% USA blood if you look closely at Christian Cullen’s dam, I nearly fell into that trap but Kev was onto it but that wouldn’t worry me at all
Americans may be wondering who Christian Cullen is when they are looking at Lazarus pedigree, I would love to see the look on their faces when and if they watched some replays of the mighty CC, It would be priceless
100% all American Salesmanship....don't let the truth get in the way of good bit of bullshit, the bloody horses' dam line is 100% Kiwi until you get to his 10th dam, a 1916 foal imported from guess where?
Bloody septics
Just reading that article, they hope to lower the world record for a mile with a horse that does not hold the Australian or NZ record for a mile.
I honestly hope he does well over there but he would have to win most of the races he goes in or break the world record to give him any chance of a decent stud career in the US . They are aiming at 4 top races and I can't see him winning any of them.
Another article on Lazarus from the U.S.
https://harnessracingupdate.com/2018...ns-in-the-u-s/
Very interesting article penned by this guy, I’m not sure if he has fully done his research either so go for your life guys, One thing I do know, No way in the world would I ever mention Auckland Reactor and Lazarus in the same breath.
Does anyone know if Lazarus has flown out yet? I thought he was due to go on 24 May.
Fair to say he's gone, then. More the Bettor was on the same flight.